End Node Vs terminate Node

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Stefan Helzle — Sun, 12 May 2024 15:52:29 GMT

I can't really tell out of my head, how a terminate end event impacts failed node instances and whether a parent process would proceed.

I suggest to do a quick test.

But, the main purpose of terminating end events is not to just skip filed nodes, but to cancel any left over timer events or scheduled nodes.

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Vasudeva — Sun, 12 May 2024 15:06:33 GMT

The question asked by Dhananjay Kumar was, if a sub process having an end event fails, the parent process is not proceeding further even the sub process is corrected and rerun.

So you have suggested to have terminate event instead of end event in the sub process, this way the parent process will resume.

This implies that the parent process will proceed further only if the sub process ends with terminate event.

Is my assumption correct ??

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Stefan Helzle — Sun, 12 May 2024 14:04:02 GMT

I do not understand why the parent process should not proceed if the child process completes ?!?!

What exactly is your question?

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Vasudeva — Sun, 12 May 2024 12:52:42 GMT

[quote userid="274702" url="~/discussions/f/process/25781/end-node-vs-terminate-node/100726"]"ends" is defined by: "There are no active nodes anymore".[/quote]

Dear Stefan, if this is the case, then the parent process should never proceed further (even if there is no error in child process / happy path ) if the child process has end event instead of terminate end. But in this case the parent process with fail to proceed only when there is an error in child process.

Please suggest.

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Stefan Helzle — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 07:12:07 GMT

I think the safest way would be to modify that process instance and add a scheduled empty script task that then goes to a terminating end event. This way you can keep that process alive as long as you need it.

What is the reason for this?

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Yashaswini — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 02:37:09 GMT

Hi Peter,

Is there any way we can restart or re activate the terminated process? One of our process models is set as delete instances after 14 days of completion and the instance is completed with the terminated end node. But now we want one of the instances not to get deleted. Is it achievable?

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Dhananjay Kumar — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 13:00:00 GMT

Thanks for detailed explanation

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Dhananjay Kumar — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 12:59:37 GMT

Probably then it must or mandatory based on scenario.

Thanks for the explanation

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Stefan Helzle — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 12:54:14 GMT

There is no "must" and no "mandatory" here. You need to understand what it does, and then use it to fit your requirements.

Peter Lewis described it pretty well.

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Dhananjay Kumar — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 12:45:16 GMT

So conclusion is if we have this kind parent child sub-process scenario, we must give terminate node in child process else if a process is stand alone then it is not mandatory to have terminate node.

Am I right?

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Stefan Helzle — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 12:40:48 GMT

Hm ... yes. The fine detail here is, that it is not about the process behaving differently, but all remaining active nodes are completed. And THAT makes the process complete and the parent progressing.

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Dhananjay Kumar — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 12:37:24 GMT

so it means, end node does not actually mark a process end which terminate node does, right?

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Stefan Helzle — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 10:51:23 GMT

The parent process will progress as the child process ends. "ends" is defined by: "There are no active nodes anymore". A terminating end event will take care of this and complete any active or failed node.

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Dhananjay Kumar — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 10:36:14 GMT

So its just a best practice, there is no difference

Here is once scenario. I want understand

There is a parent process A that have a child process C that have end node
- On Instance there is node error on child process and after fixing it and re running node and on child process completion the parent process flow does not move ahead

- But if child process C have terminate node then on re running the errored node and on child process completion, the parent process flow moves ahead,

WHY?????

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Peter Lewis — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 22:13:45 GMT

Here's an example of an abandonded process: suppose you have a process model that just contains a user input task and node that writes to the database. If you start that process but then never complete the task, then the process will never complete (and the data will remain in memory indefinitely).

Now for this example in particular it won't matter if you use a terminate or not, but suppose instead you had a similar process where you had two active tasks and if either of them finished it went to an end event. In this case it would make a difference whether it was a terminate or not, because when the first one finishes the process then ends.

So that's why I mentioned that it's more of an indirect relationship, but it's still good practice to use terminate end events to prevent these cases where there are multiple active flows.

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Dhananjay Kumar — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 19:28:32 GMT

Thanks for the detailed info, what do you mean by unfinished process or abandoned process?

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Dhananjay Kumar — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 19:25:56 GMT

Thanks

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Mike Schmitt — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 18:56:54 GMT

[quote userid="65120" url="~/discussions/f/process/25781/end-node-vs-terminate-node/100688#100688"]Then why it is recommended to have one terminate node on a process[/quote]

Because of reasons that have nothing specifically to do with data management (which you initially asked about, and which Stefan mentioned specifically). At least some of those reasons are enumerated in Peter's subsequent reply, which I 100% agree with.

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Dhananjay Kumar — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 18:35:14 GMT

Really?

Then why it is recommended to have one terminate node on a process

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Peter Lewis — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 17:13:04 GMT

The only difference is that processes that use terminate will usually end up finishing sooner (or at least are less likely to hang around unfinished), so it could have an indirect effect on your memory usage.

In general I'd recommend using terminate nodes on most process models (unless you explicitly have a reason not to) just to make it less likely that you end up with a bunch of abandoned process models. Terminates are also easier for troubleshooting, because if you end up creating multiple active flows as part of starting / restarting nodes, then you don't need to ensure that all of your active flows finish.

RE: End Node Vs terminate Node

Stefan Helzle — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 13:03:01 GMT

There is no difference in regards to data management.